I’m sure many of you got the new Zagat Guide over the weekend. I’ve barely had time to open mine, but have noticed some interesting things
Top Food Rankings: (in order)
Paley’s
Genoa
Apizza
Higgins
Heathman
Joel Palmer
Alberta Oyster
Tabla
Caffe Mingo
Nuestra Cocina
Other Noteworthy Places:
Alba
Andina
Bluehour
clarklewis
Giorgio’s
Murata
Olea
Park Kitchen
3 Doors Down
Wildwood
I have to admit, I’m a bit shocked to see Genoa in the number two spot, but I think a big part of that is sentimental value. As a matter of fact, I think many of these made the list, not on the strength of their food, but based more based on good memories from their clients.
I’ll update this post as I get a chance to go over the book, but I’m getting emails wondering why I haven’t covered this, so let ‘er rip!
Just received mine today. Good old Zagats – rankings have nothing to do with quality, just diners’ subjective opinions. I like Mingo, but top 10?
I haven’t seen Portland 2007, but I know that for years in Los Angeles, amongst the top 10 was this wee French place far out in the Valley. I finally made the pilgrimage. The decor and menu and waitstaff looked not to have changed in 50 years; ditto, the customer base, who were loyal in the nth degree and each year plied Zagat with 30/30/30s for the restaurant. How was the food? Completely forgettable.
Also in LA, Marie Callendar’s made Zagat every year. Marie Callendar’s! Where the food is not as good as Denny’s! And Ye Olde Spaghetti Factory, where the overaching aroma is the entryway is always plaster and vomit.
Zagat can be useful, for its addresses; for getting the lay of the land; for learning about the wee out of the way spot (see above). But it is increasingly not written by/for food cognoscenti but by/for the average joe, as well as those who get a kick out of sending in the little forms. That’s fine, and the guide is already iconic. But not for ten years has it been the go-to for anyone with an already healthy knowledge of the food scene looking for what they don’t already know.
Nancy’s point that Zagat “is increasingly not written by/for food cognoscenti” is well taken, but I think that very fact brings out some illuminating info. I was in LA recently and wanted to treat the friends I was staying with to a nice dinner. I checked both Zagat and the LA Times website; of the 19 restaurants that were given 3 or 3 1/2 stars by the LA Times, only 8 have shown up in the 2007 Zagat. (Of course, Nancy would know better than I do whether the LA Times’s reviews are worth anything, but I thought the disconnect was interesting.) What truly appalled me was that the Cheescake Factory was LA’s and Orange County’s MOST POPULAR restaurant! That’s all the proof you need that LA is not a food city, period. (BTW, since my friends are both off carbs – don’t get me started on that! – I took them to Norman’s [Van Aken's LA outpost], which offered lots of fish, vegies, and fruit, and was quite delightful. If I’d had my druthers, I’d have gone to Lucques, also not mentioned in Zagat.)
I realize I’m straying from my point, which is that Zagat is a good way to sense whether the general dining population of a given city is truly interested in food or not. LA, no; Portland, yes. Of course, there are a few fusty choices on the Portland list, but none of the restaurants listed are embarrassing. BTW, this is a refreshing change from years past, when Saburo’s (gag me with an oversized slab of mediocre maguro!) actually made the top food ranking; I’m hoping that my 0-0-0 review had something to do with getting them off the list.
Other places that fail the Cheesecake Factory test: Fort Lauderdale, Long Island, Miami, Milwaukie (subbing PF Chang’s for the CF), Palm Beach, Phoenix/Scottsdale (PF Chang’s again), and San Antonio (PF C’s).
Interesting list… I like Mingo a lot and regard it very highly (especially the specials), but did not think other foodies did. The beaverton Mingo is great too. Gonna have to get out to Dayton to checkout Joel Palmer… is it worth it?
Reminds me of citysearch rankings. Not real useful, but make for interesting reading.
Well Seasoned: go to Lucques next time. Have the short ribs.
As for LA not being a food town: I disagree. But as to Zagat not reflecting that: absolutely true. For an incredible tour of the city’s ethnic restaurants, try Linda Burum’s A Guide to Ethnic Food in Los Angeles. Bunim for years wrote for the Times and I think still does on occasion. She wrote the book in 1992 but it’s still invaluable, just an extraordinary wealth of knowledge and information; you can read more about it on Amazon.com.
As far as the Times and credibility: Sherry Virbila is well-respected, and a good writer, and people do take what she writes seriously. But because LA has a lot of newspapers, hers is not the only voice that matters. Jonathan Gold, who spent a long time at the Times writing the Counter Intelligence column is an incredible writer, and an endlessly adventurous eater. He was the first person with whom I ate fish skeleton. He and the column moved over to the LA Weekly (long, politically-charged story) about six years (except for a year when he was NY restaurant critic for Gourmet, when I, ahem, wrote the column on a bi-weekly basis). His book, Counter Intelligence: Where to Eat in the Real Los Angeles, makes Zagat look like a comic book.
I think the guide is an interesting way to compare average meal prices between cities. It makes you realize Portland still is somewhat of a bargain place to have a good meal.
Zagat is basically worthless for any food rating or service for that matter. I agree that it is good for address, phone, directions etc. Ask someone who knows food scene in the city you are visiting for better luck.
Michelin is pretty much the only guide I put much trust in. Probly going to be a few more years till they come to town.
Greg, in response to your Joel Palmer query, yes, it’s worth it but it’s much more worth it if you like mushrooms.
I like Zagat. I do recognize it’s shortcomings but all in all I enjoy it… when first canvassing NYC years ago it was a handy companion and something I still look forward to thumbing through during the hoilday visit.
I am surprised to see some of the people here be so dismissive of it…I very much value sites such as this or as in NYC restaurant girl but also think there is more value in Zagat than an address or phone number.
Nancy, thanks for your detailed response about LA. I lived there for a while when I was still in school and have been only a visitor since, so my knowledge of the place is more about general culture or “feel” than about specific restaurants. What struck me about LA dining is that the people with enough money to support fine restaurants there care more about being seen at a hot see-and-be-seen restaurant than eating really great food somewhere that isn’t currently hot. Of course, there are terrific ethnic restaurants throughout the area; one of my all-time favorite restaurants is the Din Tai Fung Dumpling House in Arcadia, and another is Lepe’s El Nopal in Montclair (world’s best carnitas). But as vital as small ethnic restaurants are to sustaining their compatriot clientele and delighting adventurous anglo diners, I don’t think they can by themselves create a thriving “food town.” That requires a commitment by a critical mass of diners to pay higher prices for better meals than can be found at either chains like the Cheesecake Factory or tired special occasion stand-bys like Spago. And I think that Portland diners do give that kind of support to their local restaurants, hence our wonderfully bustling food scene.
Okay, Nancy — what’s “fish skeleton”?
Vicki: It’s what it sounds like: the skeleton of a small fish, fried. We ate it at a restaurant in Chinatown at about one in the morning. I don’t know what type of fish, but I’ll wager there was a bit of flesh left on the bones when it went into the wok. The result was delicate and crunchy and really, really good.
I response to Well Seasoned: yes, of course, there’s the hot-and-be-seen element, whose presence gives undeserving restaurants buzz. What can I say, people give a damn where Lindsey Lohan eats. But there are also truly inventive restaurants that deserve the praise: in the past few years, Table 8, AOC, Grace. There’s Campanile, which after 15 years is always astoundingly great.
As for this:
As vital as small ethnic restaurants are to sustaining their compatriot clientele and delighting adventurous anglo diners, I don’t think they can by themselves create a thriving “food town.” I disagree; I think that’s exactly what does make LA a food town. Also, the “ethnic” community is now more populous than the anglo, and they’re spending money, and opening businesses.
I wholeheartedly agree that’ there’s a lot of schlock in LA, and as many diners with terrible taste and zero ideas as there are in any city; probably more. But if you look for a cuisine in LA, any cuisine, you’ll find it. And then you’ll find someone making it better.
I could live exclusively on the LA Mexican taqueria/cart scene, the Pho joints in Westiminster (OC), and the authentic Japanese ramen that can be found throughout the southland. Not to mention the best fast food burgers in the world.
That right there catapults LA as a “food town”, but the arguing against/for merits seems self-defeating. The agglomeration has 18 million people – there’s bound to be great food everywhere.
If you haven’t noticed, the P.F. Chang’s is the busiest restaurant in the Pearl on any given weekend night.
I was going to comment last night, but I paused and Nancy beat me to my point. The availability and diversity of ethnic cuisines are what make a place a good food town, and a great food town has that diversity on all levels of cuisine (my favorite example is my old haunt Houston, where you can get almost anything and many international cuisines are represented up to the fine dining level.)
It’s a cinch to stuff the ballot box at Zagat. Probably 20 ballots would do it. They never say how many they actually receive, or what the listings are based on. That would pull the curtain and reveal the Wizard in a very embarassing manner. A media-savvy restaurateur just gets friends to send in the ballots, or sends them in himself.
By far the best restaurant reviewer in LA is Jonathan Gold. (And the funniest.) Go to the LA Weekly web site and you’ll learn everything you need to know about eating the fabulous food that city has to offer.
I’m feeling chastened; I have a tendency to overstate my case, which I did in my last post, along with failing to say what I really meant to say. My long-standing annoyance at the imbecility of the scene-chasers in LA got the better of me. Anyway, apologies to all for having downplayed the role of ethnic restaurants in creating great food towns. I think -s said it best: “The availability and diversity of ethnic cuisines are what make a place a good food town, and a great food town has that diversity on all levels of cuisine.” The latter part of that comment is precisely what I was struggling to say; thanks, -s, for saying it so concisely! And I’ll go out on a limb one more time to say that I think Portland does a remarkable job for a city its size in encouraging and supporting a wide range of excellent restaurants, from traditional ethnic to chef’s invention-of-the-moment, and from cheap to extravagant.
well seasoned: i would probably agree with all your general assessments, however. And I’m quite guilty of painting all of Southern California with a broad brush stroke. This besides bleeding Dodger blue since I was 3 years old.
I was an LA college boy. Claremont to be precise. And I loathed just about everything about LA–the freeways, Hollyweird, the smog, my school, the crowds–all except for the ethnic food.
I remember eating my first Thai food ever back then. Don’t remember the name–it was in an anonymous strip mall not far from campus, but in 1976, the food was a revelation to an 18 y/o from Portland. Likewise Mexican: Juanita’s on the main road connecting Claremont to Pomona. It was a little shack on an anonymous corner–and Juanita was flesh-and-blood, a 60ish abuelita who always made my meat-bean-rice-cheese burritos and side order of taquitos. There was the oddly named (and located–right in the heart of Claremont village), Walter’s, that served Afghan food one or two nights a week. And, of course, there was In ‘n Out. And so on and so on and scooby do de doo wop.
To paraphrase Randy Newman, I loathe LA. . .but I began to learn how to eat there.
–mcz
Goodness mczlaw… I used to go to Juanita’s too.. in 1977 i’d say.
Claremont and similar SoCal sentiments as well. I transferred out of there but the one place I still think about is Walter’s.
I have to disagree with some of the people who posted. I like Zagat. I lived in both LA and San Francisco and while the LA edition was suspect, I liked the San Francisco edition. I even had one or two of my quotes published. I never really had a bad meal going with the San Francisco edition. But in San Francisco, I knew a bunch of people who ate out almost every night and traded their restaurant tips.
I am curious about Portland’s edition. When did they ask for people to survey the restaurants? I wasn’t aware that Portland had an edition in the last few years.
Hey Rubber Chicken,
Andina is by the far the busiest restaurant in the Pearl on any night. PF Changs should be on the list of places nnot to go. If you need reasons just ask. Take the challenge and see Peruvian food reign.
On the Zagat front. Having lived in New York with “thousands” of restaurants my disposal Zagat does prove useful, more so than citysearch ever could. In Portland where any foodie is going to know or know of the better restaurants Zagat would not prove as useful. Ah, but it will. Having Zagat publish something for Portland is a marker in our restaurant scene evolution. Hopefully those new to the city in the future will need this guide.
Resistance to what is coming is futile. Embrace it, mold it and we shall define not only Northwest cuisine but put this small city/big town on the culinary map.
District: By all means, please list the reasons why I don’t want to wait 90 minutes for overpriced, Anglicized Chinese standards served by generically innocuous post-teens in an atmosphere dominated by rubes who consider minced meat served in iceberg lettuce cups to be high concept. Because I’d rather be spared the wait and instead get takeout from The Cheesecake Factory while I listen to Josh Groban on my new Zune, and then go home and fire up the Tivo and have a “The Bachelor: Rome” marathon.
Hey! No dissing Tivo! God, the insanity.
PF Chang’s is Chinese what Mingo’s is to Italian.
Compared to LA, PDX is an ethnic food wasteland.
I have yet to find a decent Thai, Laotian, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Brazilian, Sichuan, Cantonese, Cambodian, or Indian (Malaysian was on the list until MSH opened) restaurant in this bland provincial city.
Holy Smog-Covered Mt. Baldy, Batman! How many former Claremonters are there on this site? I almost freaked at the mention of the best carnitas in the world in Montclair — never though the best of anything would ever be located in Montclair, CA.
I think the Thai place mcz referred to was the original location of Thai Orchid Garden at the intersection of Indian Hill and Arrow Highway, between the laundromat and the TGnY drug store. It was my introduction to truly spicy food as a 10-year-old. Whenever I’m back in the area, I hit three places, in this order: In-n-Out (right from the airport), Juanita’s, and Sanamluang Cafe (cheap awesome Thai until 3am). The Mongolian BBQ on Foothill packed more flavor into one little bowl than 20 bowls of Chang’s.
JDG, Mudd ’90
“I have yet to find a decent Thai, Laotian, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Brazilian, Sichuan, Cantonese, Cambodian, or Indian (Malaysian was on the list until MSH opened) restaurant in this bland provincial city.”
Really? Wow. Someone’s just not looking.
I have yet to find a decent Thai, Laotian, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Brazilian, Sichuan, Cantonese, Cambodian, or Indian (Malaysian was on the list until MSH opened) restaurant in this bland provincial city.
Why do I picture the author of this statement lying prostrate upon a fainting couch, hand to forehead, murmuring something about “the vapors,” as I read this?
Not sure I understand the Mingo / PF Changs comparison… ??
I have yet to find a decent Thai, Laotian, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Brazilian, Sichuan, Cantonese, Cambodian, or Indian (Malaysian was on the list until MSH opened) restaurant in this bland provincial city.
I am not an Asian food expert, but will agree with almost all of the above, with the exception of Cantonese (Wong’s King). I will also qualify this by saying I’ve eaten very little Indian food in Portland so don’t know much about this, and also, what is there really in terms of Brazil? Brazil Grill is fine, but it’s more for-show than for-food.
In terms of other Asian, we are woefully behind other cities. The Scezhuan food here is abyssmal; if someone can lead me to a great Szechuan restaurant, I’ll be there tonight. Malaysian, too. The Vietnamese food in Portland is plentiful, but only… okay.
I do, however, disagree when it comes to Thai, and will cite both Siam Society (which, granted, can justifiably be called New Thai, and lucky for us) and Pok Pok.
nancy – have you tried Sungari Pearl for Szechuan? I like it… but I may be a little blissful in my ignorance
This may be a strongly stated post but I have waited quite a while to chime in on Genoa’s cuisine. The two meals I had the displeasure of consuming there were all a blur. My dining guests and I simply increased our alcohol consumption as each new course disappointed. Thinking it might have been an off-night, I returned with my girl only to be severely disappointed again. Genoa is over-priced and typical of many restaurants; long on ambiance, short on taste.
I have tried Sungari Pearl. My in-laws and daughter love it. I thought it quite lovely, and the people are charming, but the food, to my taste, was pretty tame; just not a lot of that Szechuan oomph. We were ordering as a group, taking into consideration tamer tongues, so, this may have something to do with my being underwhelmed.
Malay Satay Hut in the Fubonn shopping center is good. Vietnamese fare is standard throughout town, but then again, it’s pretty standard most places – Portland doesn’t generally excel or disappoint in this area. There’s enough a Vietnamese population here to sustain some good options. Like anyplace, there’s varying degrees of freshness and consistency, unless you’re trying to do something frou frou like the Slanted Door (which Silk nee Pho Van in the Pearl shoots for), which is a different beast altogether. Vietnamese food, while still cheap, is consistently more expensive in Portland than my experience in San Diego and LA (aside from the banh mi delis, which are all cheap). In Southern California you can get rolls and a bowl of soup for $5-6, and it was not uncommon to see the more unique dishes all for under $10.
As far as Laotian and Cambodian, well, even in large cities you’ll find there’s not a lot of representation in that area. Even immigrants from these countries who open restaurants will tend to craft their menus to feature more familiar Thai and Vietnamese fare.
I find most depressing is the lack of Japanese diversity. Portlanders love their maki style sushi and bagged udon. Ramen, okonomiyaki, and izakaya is not even really represented at all.
Didn’t a new izakaya place just open up?
They call themselves izakaya (if we are thinking the same place), but after eating there a few times it is about as far from izakaya as Beaverton is from Japan…if you catch my drift. It’s more like a big American style cocktail bar that sells asian “inspired” appetizers. Kind of a bummer actually.
There is an okonomiyaki place on Powell. Not bad, and relatively cheap.
FYI – Hakatamon, the restaurant attached to Uwajimaya on Beverton-Hillsdale, makes their own udon.
Has anyone been to Genoa lately? My husband took me there for my birthday and the food was just fabulous. Our first experience at Genoa was 4 years ago and I was not really impress with the food and we have not been back since. However, we heard there was new management and chef. This seems to have made a huge difference. We would definitely go back again. Prefix offer for 3, 5, and 7 courses.
What’s even more impressive? They did a wonderful job with the vegetarian entrees. Bravo!